Evolution?

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Canuckster
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Re: Evolution?

Postby Canuckster » Mon May 28, 2018 4:37 pm

People say they all want the truth, but when they are confronted with a truth that disagrees with them, they balk at it as if it were an unwanted zombie apocalypse come to destroy civilization.

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Masato
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Postby Masato » Mon May 28, 2018 5:35 pm

^^ that's an example of HORIZONTAL evolution, no? Subtle changes and adaptations/improvements within a species... etc

aka VARIATION.

I think this sort of evolution is well-demonstrated and proven. Its the vertical evolution that I can't wrap my head around (ie; completely new complex features, not just improvements on existing ones)

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Postby Canuckster » Mon May 28, 2018 6:45 pm

Masato wrote:^^ that's an example of HORIZONTAL evolution, no? Subtle changes and adaptations/improvements within a species... etc

I think this sort of evolution is well-demonstrated and proven. Its the vertical evolution that I can't wrap my head around (ie; completely new complex features, not just improvements on existing ones)


I think man is too arrogant to understand the concept of how life originates and orients itself in this world we live in.

It's highly likely the mechanism that drives evolutionary change is far beyond our current ability to understand. There are many examples of short term evolutionary changes occurring, but I doubt we'll ever see any major changes because that's likely not how it works. I think that our dna contains code that will allow for changes within itself to allow for environmental adaptation in an effort to continue the species in light of the environment.
People say they all want the truth, but when they are confronted with a truth that disagrees with them, they balk at it as if it were an unwanted zombie apocalypse come to destroy civilization.

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Postby Masato » Tue May 29, 2018 4:09 am

I think the truth is known. More and more I am suspecting it was just covered up, evolution as the alibi to mask over the true history. We went from being amazing mystical beings to dumb, blind random fluke.

What do you think of the evolution of wings and eyes as discussed here? Do you agree that according to the theory of evolution as it stands, there is no sensible process by which such incredibly complex things can develop, where there were no such things before?

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Canuckster
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Postby Canuckster » Tue May 29, 2018 4:18 am

I think people get the idea of creation mixed up in evolution. I don't necessarily mean God, but rather like you said how things developed wings. Did the evolve from another animals need or did it get created out of a hidden biological mechanism built into dna and life on the planet
People say they all want the truth, but when they are confronted with a truth that disagrees with them, they balk at it as if it were an unwanted zombie apocalypse come to destroy civilization.

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shankara
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Postby shankara » Wed May 30, 2018 6:06 pm

Canuckster wrote:I think people get the idea of creation mixed up in evolution. I don't necessarily mean God, but rather like you said how things developed wings. Did the evolve from another animals need or did it get created out of a hidden biological mechanism built into dna and life on the planet


There is the religious idea of guided evolution, like the whole process was directed by divinity to achieve some kind of purpose. Of course many of these religious people believe animals don't have souls, only humans, and so they believe that the soul was "implanted" at some point in the human. But then what was it like for the first humans? Would they be conscious beings surrounded by unconscious automatons? How many of them would be conscious? How would they be able to tell the conscious ones from the automatons? At what point would they become conscious?

Effectively I've seen nothing in any form of evolutionist doctrine which explains this. Consciousness is Light. A computer can calculate things but it can never experience itself calculating things, it can filter images but it can never in fact percieve because it doesn't have the light of consciousness in it. The Hindus talk about an atom in the heart which is the being, the Atman, some Western philosophers believe the pineal gland to be the seat of consciousness (i.e. the Crown Chakra). Whatever way, it isn't something that can develop, because Nothing cannot simply become Something because Nothing is categorically different to Something, there is no order of magnitude (i.e. Something is not 10^x of Nothing, Nothing remains Nothing whatever you times it by)... I'm doing my best to explain something I find difficult to express in words.

Nonetheless the notion of evolution guided by Divinity is a lot saner than just attributing it to random chance.

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Postby Masato » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:49 pm

^ interesting idea, that of some divinely guided evolution.

I am more and more thinking that indeed, consciousness is the foundation of everything. I remember a fellow I enjoyed listening to (can't remember his name now, we have a thread with his vids somewhere in the back pages), who used to be a hardcore physics expert, and for most of his life believed that the physical was the true nature of Reality, and out of this physical mechanism somehow consciousness arises.

Then he told of an epiphany moment where he suddenly saw that the truth was in fact the reverse; that consciousness may be the fabric of the universe, and out of THAT comes the physical reality, the manifestation of what is conceived by the consciousness.

Very very interesting twist imo. Makes many things possible, and many more things explainable.

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Postby Masato » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:51 pm

shankara wrote:Nonetheless the notion of evolution guided by Divinity is a lot saner than just attributing it to random chance.


Quite ironic, considering the scientific perspective is supposed to claim the upper hand on 'sanity' over any religious explanations lol

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Postby Masato » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:57 am

Here is a website I stumbled on where legit scientist types are not afraid to say they don't find the Darwinian model convincing:

https://dissentfromdarwin.org/

interesting

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Postby Masato » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:47 pm

Another interesting read that backs up what I've been describing here:

https://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html


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