Great site/resource: Pagan Pathway

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Luigi
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Great site/resource: Pagan Pathway

Postby Luigi » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:32 am

Found this site recently and love it: https://paganpathway.org/index.php?limitstart=0
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Luigi
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Postby Luigi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:22 am

My favorite article of theirs:

https://paganpathway.org/index.php?opti ... Itemid=101

Though the author seems to have plagiarized half of it from this essay by Aurimas Guoga:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/christ ... uania.html
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Luigi
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Postby Luigi » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:47 am

Luigi wrote:My favorite article of theirs:

https://paganpathway.org/index.php?opti ... Itemid=101

Though the author seems to have plagiarized half of it from this essay by Aurimas Guoga:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/christ ... uania.html

Im pleased to find out that Russian sources corroberate the Baltic and German ones about superstitions/magic/witchcraft still thriving in Lithuania in the 1600s. I posted the details of which in the fairy thread. Also noteworthy apparently a large part of Slavic paganism was about venerating the natural world and this survived in Christianized Slavs according to the same article. For reference/archival purposes here is the detailed post I made in the other thread:

[spoiler]
I was looking into the topic of the witch trials being the churches attack on legitimate survivals of paganism as discussed in the early links I posted and came to an interesting topic: what was the role of witchcraft in the East Orthodox realm? The general concensus is that it was nowhere near as bad as the Western witch craze. The evidence is discussed in detail in this JSTOR article:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1856344?ne ... b_contents

To summarize, witchcraft trials in the East typically only happened after a great disaster such as a famine or a plague. Typically 5-10 people got either burned to death or exiled. Around the same time the West got really paranoid about it in the 1600s, so did Russian rulers and decreed harsh punishment for it. It didnt really happen much until the 1700s though. We only have records from one large Moscow archive that survived, but according to it 99 people were tried. The verdict usually doesnt survive in the damaged manuscript or just wasnt recorded, but among the verdicts that survived about 2/3 people were found innocent, and of those found guilty about 1/3 of them were only exiled and not executed. When Catharine the Great came to power she changed the law so witchcraft was a less serious crime, deserving punishments fit for crimes like fraud, and the executions and exiles ended. The author attributes the smaller scale and lower severity to the fact that because Christianity and Paganism coexisted among Slavs longer than it did in the West, they had a world view that preserved the idea of the natural world as a sacred force to be venerated and meant that a lot of Slavs actually were practicing witchcraft. The historical documents note multiple times the irony that the accusers of witches were often known to have used the services of the witch in the past. Also because of the power of the natural world idea, apparently the river trial was used way more than the west and people had a solid chance of surviving it(they tie up your hands and feet and throw you in a river. If you float its from witch powers, if you sink they rescue you. This would actually just happen if you exhaled the air in your lungs). As a source for his assertion about the Slavic dual worldview he cites this book: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php? ... 0674333604

Also an interesting note for those who read my crusade thread, the Russian authorities in the 1600s actually make specific mention of Lithuania's amazingly persistent customs: The forbid any Russian from buying Lithuanian herbs, as they are used to do magic in Lithuania.
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Postby Masato » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:58 pm

Luigi what is your personal interest in such topics? Do you feel akin to these traditions and lore? Do you suspect there was perhaps some real magic at work in those times? Or simply some great wisdom?

How do you see it's extermination, was it just religious paranoia or do you see perhaps some grander conspiracy to end it all and wipe it from history?

At the end of Lord of the Rings if I recall correctly, all or most of the magical beings of Middle Earth all sail away to a different realm so that the land could enter the Age of Men or whatever. I wonder if he might be painting some allegory of how/when/why all these creatures and magic of old seems to have disappeared. Modern ideologies ridicule the stories and turn into Disney crap, science scoffs at the mere mention, etc.

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Postby Luigi » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:11 pm

Masato wrote:Luigi what is your personal interest in such topics? Do you feel akin to these traditions and lore? Do you suspect there was perhaps some real magic at work in those times? Or simply some great wisdom?

How do you see it's extermination, was it just religious paranoia or do you see perhaps some grander conspiracy to end it all and wipe it from history?

At the end of Lord of the Rings if I recall correctly, all or most of the magical beings of Middle Earth all sail away to a different realm so that the land could enter the Age of Men or whatever. I wonder if he might be painting some allegory of how/when/why all these creatures and magic of old seems to have disappeared. Modern ideologies ridicule the stories and turn into Disney crap, science scoffs at the mere mention, etc.

I most certainly feel akin to them. Really this all started as a historical interest of mine but evolved into an exploration of spirituality. I recently mentioned the fairies to my family and my mom told me her grandmother had a strong belief in the fairies, - a very tangible confirmation of what I already felt and knew: this beautiful tradition is part of our community, its part of who we are. Its no coincidence that people feel so spiritually empty in the age when this is being disgarded in favor of facebook and Kim Kardashian. I am certain they held a great wisdom in those times, in terms of "real magic" things get tricky. For example traditional Chinese medicine would have no doubt been considered witchcraft, using "magic herbs" - and many of their herbal remedies are now confirmed by science to be highly beneficial. The common medicine echinacea is a traditional Amerindian herbal medicine in pill form. In this sense I think the witches certainly had real magic. In terms of the stuff like turning into rabbits and cursing pastors, I have to suspend my scepticism to entertain the idea. Its not something I'd bet on hehe. But like I said I also think they had a lot of wisdom that could have no doubt helped a lot of people spiritually. Maybe thats magic enough.

The extermination didnt come out of nowhere, it was the logical conclusion of introducing Christianity(and later Islam) to the world. Once its introduced to a host region the first goal is to eliminate worship of other gods, then once that is complete it becomes a descent into a purity spiral destroying anything that could be seem as not entirely Christian. You could consider this a conspiracy, the clergy were certainly conspiring all the while to wipe it from history. The real question is why shit got so extreme in the west at that specific time. The author wonders the same question and iirc he said we dont really know. I was reading some Christian apologia that described it as a result of the renaissance creating protestantism which contributed heavily to the witch trials. As we know though the other branches also took part.

I cant really think of a political motive for the zeal of western witch hunts, got any ideas Mas? Maybe bankers or free masons distracting everyone so they can gain power or something? Maybe the prods were just loopy back then? Also for the record I actually have a deep appreciation for Disney in how they have immortalized and perpetuated the popularity of folkstories like Snow White and Cinderella. Not too sure what they have been up to in the last 10 years though.
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Postby Masato » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:45 am

^ super interesting, thanks for sharing Luigi

I feel bad about my Disney knocks now, lol indeed those first few decades of films are quite great

I can't put together any concrete theory on the matter, I just can't help but be confused how so-called Christian values could result in a genocidal tyrannical empire. I can however see the other side of it, that a genocidal tyrannical empire could result in the pushing of a false-Christian face. In this sense the original motivation was not a love for Christ or devotion to his teachings, but something totally opposite. I get how religious folk can take it too far sometimes but we are talking a massive undertaking, I don't remember Jesus teaching any of that, lol

So under this premise, what was the goal? What would motivate to murder, witch-hunt, take over cultures, eradicate others? Seems plausible to me that it was simply control over humanity. Make us weak, rob what may give us strength, take away our knowledge, erase our history.

I am loosely overlapping these thoughts with some other threads of research I'm doing about 'erased megalithic history', where it seems that not only witches were burned, but entire traces of a history also possibly were systematically destroyed and erased.

I don't know, just some thoughts lately I can't help but shake. We are a 'species with amnesia', and everything I've learned (which ain't much, lol) + my intuition is inclining me to suspect that this amnesia has been deliberately imposed. If such a theory holds any water I would guess that knowledge of fairies and magic were probably a casualty of this amnesia/destruction

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Postby Luigi » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:45 am

Masato wrote:^ super interesting, thanks for sharing Luigi

I feel bad about my Disney knocks now, lol indeed those first few decades of films are quite great

I can't put together any concrete theory on the matter, I just can't help but be confused how so-called Christian values could result in a genocidal tyrannical empire. I can however see the other side of it, that a genocidal tyrannical empire could result in the pushing of a false-Christian face. In this sense the original motivation was not a love for Christ or devotion to his teachings, but something totally opposite. I get how religious folk can take it too far sometimes but we are talking a massive undertaking, I don't remember Jesus teaching any of that, lol

So under this premise, what was the goal? What would motivate to murder, witch-hunt, take over cultures, eradicate others? Seems plausible to me that it was simply control over humanity. Make us weak, rob what may give us strength, take away our knowledge, erase our history.

I am loosely overlapping these thoughts with some other threads of research I'm doing about 'erased megalithic history', where it seems that not only witches were burned, but entire traces of a history also possibly were systematically destroyed and erased.

I don't know, just some thoughts lately I can't help but shake. We are a 'species with amnesia', and everything I've learned (which ain't much, lol) + my intuition is inclining me to suspect that this amnesia has been deliberately imposed. If such a theory holds any water I would guess that knowledge of fairies and magic were probably a casualty of this amnesia/destruction

Jesus only had to teach that all people were the children of this one god and the message should be spread to everyone. Thats all it took to make it a missionary religion, or maybe we should blame his early followers. Its hard to see who this benefits, all the powers at the time got kinda messed up by it, even the Israelites didnt benefit short term. Who knows though.
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Luigi
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Postby Luigi » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:13 pm

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Postby Luigi » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:06 am

Im just going to keep using this for miscelaneous fun topics I find but are not significant enough to make a thread about.

Some time ago I watched Survive the Jive's great video on Halloween and the pagan origins of it and related holidays found throughout Europe. Recently reading an article on Slavic paganism in Encyclopedia Britannica provided some supplementary info:

"Considering the religious past of the Slavs, it is not surprising that manism(worshipping/venerating the dead) was strong enough to epitomize and overwhelm all or practically all of their religious views. The seasonal festivals of the Slavs turn out to be almost entirely dedicated to the dead, very often without the participants realizing it, as in the case of the Koljada (Latin Kalendae)—the annual visit made by the spirits of the dead, under the disguise of beggars, to all the houses in the village."

Annual visit of beggars to houses in connection to a holiday about the spirits of the dead, hmm sounds familiar. It really never hit me before now though that the reason the trick-or-treating ritual happens at the holiday of the dead is that we as children were unknowingly metaphysical embodiments of the spirits of the dead returning to the living to ask for offerings. It very much speaks to the concept that we are a continuation of our ancestors, we are a rebirth, a reincarnation if you will, of our forebearers.
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Postby Edge Guerrero » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:31 pm

Masato wrote:^ super interesting, thanks for sharing Luigi

I feel bad about my Disney knocks now, lol indeed those first few decades of films are quite great

I can't put together any concrete theory on the matter, I just can't help but be confused how so-called Christian values could result in a genocidal tyrannical empire. I can however see the other side of it, that a genocidal tyrannical empire could result in the pushing of a false-Christian face. In this sense the original motivation was not a love for Christ or devotion to his teachings, but something totally opposite. I get how religious folk can take it too far sometimes but we are talking a massive undertaking, I don't remember Jesus teaching any of that, lol

So under this premise, what was the goal? What would motivate to murder, witch-hunt, take over cultures, eradicate others? Seems plausible to me that it was simply control over humanity. Make us weak, rob what may give us strength, take away our knowledge, erase our history.

I am loosely overlapping these thoughts with some other threads of research I'm doing about 'erased megalithic history', where it seems that not only witches were burned, but entire traces of a history also possibly were systematically destroyed and erased.

I don't know, just some thoughts lately I can't help but shake. We are a 'species with amnesia', and everything I've learned (which ain't much, lol) + my intuition is inclining me to suspect that this amnesia has been deliberately imposed. If such a theory holds any water I would guess that knowledge of fairies and magic were probably a casualty of this amnesia/destruction


- You should indeed feel very bad.Disney does great cartoons and movies!
- I rent this space for advertising

Don't be selfish, preserve this world for the next generations.

I'll never long for what might have been
Regret won't waste my life again
I won't look back I'll fight to remain


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