We need to law telling us exactly how to act

Politics, History, & 'Conspiracy'
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fungi
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We need to law telling us exactly how to act

Postby fungi » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:35 pm

Masato wrote:You guys are both right imo... just seeing sort of 2 sides of the same coin.

Humans and animals are complex creatures; we are part nature/part nurture... part DNA and part spiritual.

there are different ways of looking at the issue, both hold truths


IDK, Masato... A part of soul encoded in DNA? That's out there. I'm not saying it's not so, but, dude, it's really out there.

Ok, if one commits a murder, does his DNA change? Is it same before and after the act? I believe the soul* does change, but is it reflected in the genes? IDK.

* - I have to believe in existence of soul, otherwise, we're just random piles of cosmic sand.
Dust in the wind. All We're is dust in the wind (a meaningless one, in case there's no soul).

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Masato
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Postby Masato » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:08 pm

I didn't say soul encoded in DNA - just that we are creatures that contain both components.

I am 100% with ya on the bottom part of your post, I am much more prone to seeing the spiritual side of us than the mere physical

Here is a question though of which I do not know the answer;

If a woman is pregnant, and while pregnant is angry and hateful, does this pass to the child, and will that child be pre-determined to have some of these traits already at birth? If the mother finds peace later, or if the child is raised by someone else more loving, does that hate during pregnancy still transfer? Reversely, if a woman while pregnant is calm and loving, will the baby be born with a pre-disposition for peace and love?

If so, (and I do believe this is true), in what way does this become a characteristic of the child? Does it become engrained in the physical makeup? Or in other words, to what degree does spirit/emotion/energy translate to the physical?

It is an interesting question... this is the only reason I am trying to bridge the gap between you and Joe Mama... I believe it is not just one or the other, both viewpoints hold some truths. We are a strange chemistry of the 2

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Envy337
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Postby Envy337 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:16 pm

Check out the story of Christian the lion, who was raised by two guys. They released him into the wild, where he survived and adapted successfully and even had a family. They visited him a year and 2 years later, and he recognized them and even introduced his family to them. He was loyal. Lions were never domesticated, btw.


Kinda cool that you chose this as an example, maybe it will make my point easier to understand. I spent first 8 years of my life in Mexico City and we had lots of wildlife as pets. Falcons, owls, wide variety of parrots and the 2 biggest pets were a pair of lions and a female jaguar. I dont know how old the female lion was but I always remember her being full grown. Only my Dad could handle her and she was never aggressive towards him. I was never allowed close to her. When i was 6 or 7, Pops brought home a lion cub and the female jaguar cub. They were raised together, living inside the house and interacting with my family. By 6 months, we had to give the jaguar back because she was "wild". The lion stayed with us till we had to move back to the states. He was definitely cool towards us and we could even play around, but not the level of a dog. Pops saw him years later and he recognized him. Lions are social animal, jaguars are not which i think explains why the lion was easier to get along with. Plus, lions have been bred in captivity for at least 2,500 years. Some even carry genes of extinct subspecies.







Nope, my assessment was that owners choose the "look" first, and, then, condition them to match their (owners') behavior.

A little dog can be trained to be ultra-aggressive too.


That's an irresponsible owner, you have to research a breed of dog to match your own behavior. Plenty of dogs end up abandoned because the owners cant handle the dog they chose. It's not the dogs fault that they NATURALLY behave a certain way.

It's much easier to get a dog with the traits you want than to teach a dog.



No, they don't. In a good home they'd be taught that bullying another kid is not good. Dude, come on.


LoL, Dude, you come on. Bad kids come out of good homes and vice versa, you can't disagree with that.


Envy337 wrote:It's not sci-fi if you think about it. The genetic code has to carry morality, the good, bad and everything in between. When we were conceived, there must have countless other versions that could have been. Different gender, physical attributes, mental capacity, morality, every other behavior or feeling that is. So simply put, its predetermined to have a tendency to be good or bad.


Dude, you're nuts. You know, I'm a self-admitted CT-er and a Truther, a proud one, but you're even crazier than I am :shock: :lol: :shock: :lol: :shock:

Genes determining good or bad? Dude, that's out there. Like OUT THERE!!! Completely.


I dont think it's crazy, it's just how I feel about that. If you are religious or believe in some higher power the Yes, I would say its fucking crazy thinking lol.

Can you give me an explanation why it's "out here"? I'm curious.

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Masato
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Postby Masato » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:23 pm

Just like drugs can bring a person to high levels of love and compassion... or others are depressed or destructive because of mere chemical imbalances...

for sure our physical makeup has a role to play in our behaviour

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Postby Envy337 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:30 pm

Masato wrote:I am much more prone to seeing the spiritual side of us than the mere physical




I'm with you on that but we shouldnt ignore the physical. If we accept both, then we can have a happy medium and fully experience life.

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Joe Mama
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Postby Joe Mama » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:33 pm

Well, I would quote the fuck out of you AJ but you make my head hurt, and well, reaffirm a tidbit of wisdom I have gathered along the way... <InsertPersonalityTraitHere> people don't necessarily 'want' to be <PersonalityTrait> they just are. :)

Lets just say we agree to disagree bro. I am starting to get the feeling that you are getting a little more bent about this than I care to argue with you bro.

And FWIW, the Chuck Liddell thing was sarcasm/joking/jest.
I am sorry that I failed to come across like that.

Im done here folks! (This thread sillies)

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Masato
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Postby Masato » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:21 am

^ good call Joe, I really don't know why this discussion got hot... everyone is bringing valuable perspectives, I really see everyone being right in their own way

Envy just nailed it basically, we are combinations of the 2 - they are INTERTWINED, 2 sides of 1 coin

In the end, none of us can ever be sure or certain of our views... more likely there is a deeper magic to it all that we are all blind to! Our opinions are only windows into how we see the world as individuals, and are not absolutes.

BUT to (possibly) put a positive end to the thread, let me quote my drunken old-man friend I was chillin with last night, I laughed my ass off and immediately thought of this thread:


"The other day, I was watching my dog chase his tail. He chased it for 5 whole minutes, enthralled. I was amazed at how easily amused dogs are, that something so simple could entertain him for a whole 5 minutes!

- Then I realized that I had been watching my dog chase his tail for a whole 5 minutes, thoroughly amused."



LOL

Joe and fungi are good peeps, you guys shouldn't have friction you are both super-cool dudes. As Edge was trying so valiantly to say in his 2nd language;

Image

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Postby fungi » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:53 am

Envy337 wrote:Kinda cool that you chose this as an example, maybe it will make my point easier to understand. I spent first 8 years of my life in Mexico City and we had lots of wildlife as pets. Falcons, owls, wide variety of parrots and the 2 biggest pets were a pair of lions and a female jaguar. I dont know how old the female lion was but I always remember her being full grown. Only my Dad could handle her and she was never aggressive towards him. I was never allowed close to her. When i was 6 or 7, Pops brought home a lion cub and the female jaguar cub. They were raised together, living inside the house and interacting with my family. By 6 months, we had to give the jaguar back because she was "wild". The lion stayed with us till we had to move back to the states. He was definitely cool towards us and we could even play around, but not the level of a dog. Pops saw him years later and he recognized him. Lions are social animal, jaguars are not which i think explains why the lion was easier to get along with. Plus, lions have been bred in captivity for at least 2,500 years. Some even carry genes of extinct subspecies.


Woah! One heck of a childhood. Unfucking believable. I wish I had lions for pets.

But despite being held in captivity for 2500+ years lions are not domesticated. And we all (animals and plants) probably carry genes of extinct species and subspecies.

My point is, Masato voiced it already, and I will defend it to no end: "There are no bad dogs, only bad owners."






Envy337 wrote:That's an irresponsible owner, you have to research a breed of dog to match your own behavior. Plenty of dogs end up abandoned because the owners cant handle the dog they chose. It's not the dogs fault that they NATURALLY behave a certain way.

It's much easier to get a dog with the traits you want than to teach a dog.

I'd say that dogs are abandoned because of irresponsibility and lack of discipline. Not because the owner chose a "wrong breed" that doesn't match his/her behavior.

Getting up to walk the dog in bad weather at odd hours, cleaning up dog shit, etc. that's what makes people abandon dogs, not its breed. In my opinion.


Envy337 wrote:
No, they don't. In a good home they'd be taught that bullying another kid is not good. Dude, come on.


LoL, Dude, you come on. Bad kids come out of good homes and vice versa, you can't disagree with that.


They do, no argument here, but it's bringing up and peer pressure, not the genetics, that make bad or good.


Envy337 wrote:
Envy337 wrote:The genetic code has to carry morality, the good, bad and everything in between. So simply put, its predetermined to have a tendency to be good or bad.


I dont think it's crazy, it's just how I feel about that. If you are religious or believe in some higher power the Yes, I would say its fucking crazy thinking lol.

Can you give me an explanation why it's "out here"? I'm curious.

Dude, DNA determining good or bad IS out there, meaning outside of "normalcy range". Granted, normalcy is very subjective and a not very well definable term. But I hope you get what I mean by saying "your theory is OUT there".

This is a definitely crazy sci-fi grade idea that hasn't had even the slightest confirmation or verification yet.

I'll just say we definitely don't know enough about DNA yet to make such statements. Also such "theory" does seem very unlikely.

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Postby fungi » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:05 am

Masato wrote:
Here is a question though of which I do not know the answer;

If a woman is pregnant, and while pregnant is angry and hateful, does this pass to the child, and will that child be pre-determined to have some of these traits already at birth? If the mother finds peace later, or if the child is raised by someone else more loving, does that hate during pregnancy still transfer? Reversely, if a woman while pregnant is calm and loving, will the baby be born with a pre-disposition for peace and love?

If so, (and I do believe this is true), in what way does this become a characteristic of the child? Does it become engrained in the physical makeup? Or in other words, to what degree does spirit/emotion/energy translate to the physical?

Oh, what a wonderful example/question for this thread.

Mother being stressed/hurt/angry does directly influence the child in the womb, as her hormonal balance goes berserk, all kinds of chemical reactions result in release of all kinds of secretions that definitely affect the embryo. The child may be born undersized, with all kinds of heart and other internal organ defects, etc. It may even result in all kinds of deformities/mutations.

But will it make the child an asshole or a decent human being? Does being born a physical freak ("bad" DNA) make you a "moral freak" as well? Does being born a perfect human specimen ("good" DNA) make you a good person?

I say it doesn't, and it has been my whole point in this thread.


p.s.Also, if you have time, fellers, check out this article. Fear can be passed down to offsprings.
http://blogs.redorbit.com/inheriting-fear/
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/fea ... -inherited
https://student.societyforscience.org/a ... es-in-mice

But I'll maintain my stubborn stance here ;) and will say that fear is a physical reaction to an event/threat, not a moral quality in this particular case.

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fungi
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Postby fungi » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:11 am

Masato wrote:^ good call Joe, I really don't know why this discussion got hot...


Anyone who says or implies that dogs (and other animals) are "assholes" and "submissive bitches" is and e-enemy of mine :evil: :evil: :evil:

One can call me an "asshole", and, guess what, I won't argue much. But dogs...


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