Che Yay or Nay?

Politics, History, & 'Conspiracy'
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Rambo John J
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Re: Che Yay or Nay?

Postby Rambo John J » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:53 pm

Masato wrote:Castro with Pierre Trudeau:
Image
Image

Trudeau's mom with Castro:
Image

If the theories in the vid you posted have validity, it really makes me wonder exactly what the relationship was between P Trudeau and Castro, why they seemed so close, why they spend time together. Trudeau is elite bloodline, the idea of mixing and planting 'leaders' is not too far fetched imo

Oh ya
She banged him

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shankara
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Postby shankara » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:57 am

Illuminat3d0ne wrote:
Masato wrote:Makes for a potential entire revisionist history of Cuba

I agree if this is the case Che was probably an honest dupe

Imo he was
He seemed to be a sincere man for the people who got absolutely fucked by someone who was supposed to be one of his closest allies


I don't think it's just that he was betrayed by Castro, he was also foolish enough to fall for the whole Marxism-Leninism theory (which is a conspiracy in itself really...)

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Megaterio Llamas
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Postby Megaterio Llamas » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:23 pm

His dad is either Fidel or Mick Jagger and does look much more like Fidel than he does Mick.

So, Fidel it is.

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Masato
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Postby Masato » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:53 pm

shankara wrote:
Illuminat3d0ne wrote:
Masato wrote:Makes for a potential entire revisionist history of Cuba

I agree if this is the case Che was probably an honest dupe

Imo he was
He seemed to be a sincere man for the people who got absolutely fucked by someone who was supposed to be one of his closest allies


I don't think it's just that he was betrayed by Castro, he was also foolish enough to fall for the whole Marxism-Leninism theory (which is a conspiracy in itself really...)


Great.

Marxism-Leninism is not a conspiracy imo, its a myth. A human myth that spans both east and west, communist/capitalist/socialist/fascist ideologies alike; the myth that a 'Golden Age' is coming and will be possible, that one day humanity will live in plenty, with a grand benevolent leader at the helm for all mankind. - A return to Eden if you will

This is an archetype imo that either burns in our collective consciousness, or has been sold to us as a trick... imo likely both.

ALL the 'isms' of political strategies (except anarchism) cradle this myth as their goal. Once people put their hearts and souls into this myth, no matter the particular form they choose, watch the fuck out. Humans will fight to the death with religious fervor for the hope of this myth to come true, and put their faith in any charlatan who dares sell it to them.

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shankara
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Postby shankara » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:49 pm

Masato wrote:
Great.

Marxism-Leninism is not a conspiracy imo, its a myth. A human myth that spans both east and west, communist/capitalist/socialist/fascist ideologies alike; the myth that a 'Golden Age' is coming and will be possible, that one day humanity will live in plenty, with a grand benevolent leader at the helm for all mankind. - A return to Eden if you will

This is an archetype imo that either burns in our collective consciousness, or has been sold to us as a trick... imo likely both.

ALL the 'isms' of political strategies (except anarchism) cradle this myth as their goal. Once people put their hearts and souls into this myth, no matter the particular form they choose, watch the fuck out. Humans will fight to the death with religious fervor for the hope of this myth to come true.


Yeah interesting, you have a lot of clarity about this,I'd never really thought of it like that. I think that under certain circumstances the longing for a better world can really help people, the notion that we are all trapped in Babylon and could reach a better state of social co-existence, "Zion" (without the political Israeli connotation... though in a sense Israel is an inverted form of that whole myth) is something that can lead people to do great things.

In the case of Communism though I think that at the foundations it's actually designed and intended to corrupt humanity, to reduce human beings the level of animals who simply work and consume, work and consume, work and consume. Well, Capitalism does the same thing but it isn't directly atheistic, it's materialist in the practical sense but isn't forcing everyone to accept the dogma of materialism in the philosophical sense. In general capitalist societies don't imprison people for the beliefs they hold though maybe nowadays it's getting towards that as elements of communism (and a certain type of facism) are quietly embedded in our belief systems.

Don't get me wrong, I detest capitalism and I'm sure that there was a lot of sinister involvement in it's conception but communism is another level of tyranny beyond even the capitalist one, by design.

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Illuminat3d0ne
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Postby Illuminat3d0ne » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:05 pm

shankara wrote:
Illuminat3d0ne wrote:
Masato wrote:Makes for a potential entire revisionist history of Cuba

I agree if this is the case Che was probably an honest dupe

Imo he was
He seemed to be a sincere man for the people who got absolutely fucked by someone who was supposed to be one of his closest allies


I don't think it's just that he was betrayed by Castro, he was also foolish enough to fall for the whole Marxism-Leninism theory (which is a conspiracy in itself really...)

Foolish possibly but he was also young and even personally Marxism seemed like a good idea on paper when I was young
Possibly foolish for believing true Marxism can exist in this world, that I would agree with

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Illuminat3d0ne
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Postby Illuminat3d0ne » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:15 pm

shankara wrote:
Masato wrote:
Great.

Marxism-Leninism is not a conspiracy imo, its a myth. A human myth that spans both east and west, communist/capitalist/socialist/fascist ideologies alike; the myth that a 'Golden Age' is coming and will be possible, that one day humanity will live in plenty, with a grand benevolent leader at the helm for all mankind. - A return to Eden if you will

This is an archetype imo that either burns in our collective consciousness, or has been sold to us as a trick... imo likely both.

ALL the 'isms' of political strategies (except anarchism) cradle this myth as their goal. Once people put their hearts and souls into this myth, no matter the particular form they choose, watch the fuck out. Humans will fight to the death with religious fervor for the hope of this myth to come true.


Yeah interesting, you have a lot of clarity about this,I'd never really thought of it like that. I think that under certain circumstances the longing for a better world can really help people, the notion that we are all trapped in Babylon and could reach a better state of social co-existence, "Zion" (without the political Israeli connotation... though in a sense Israel is an inverted form of that whole myth) is something that can lead people to do great things.

In the case of Communism though I think that at the foundations it's actually designed and intended to corrupt humanity, to reduce human beings the level of animals who simply work and consume, work and consume, work and consume. Well, Capitalism does the same thing but it isn't directly atheistic, it's materialist in the practical sense but isn't forcing everyone to accept the dogma of materialism in the philosophical sense. In general capitalist societies don't imprison people for the beliefs they hold though maybe nowadays it's getting towards that as elements of communism (and a certain type of facism) are quietly embedded in our belief systems.

Don't get me wrong, I detest capitalism and I'm sure that there was a lot of sinister involvement in it's conception but communism is another level of tyranny beyond even the capitalist one, by design.

Both are simply ways of controlling a population, the only truly free political system would be arachy

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shankara
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Postby shankara » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:07 pm

Illuminat3d0ne wrote:Foolish possibly but he was also young and even personally Marxism seemed like a good idea on paper when I was young
Possibly foolish for believing true Marxism can exist in this world, that I would agree with


Yeah I used to think that the problem wasn't with Marxism itself but with a misinterpretation of it, Stalinism and Maoism. I'm no expert on the Marxist philosophy but I know that it's based on Dialectical Materialism. This means that the whole of reality is interpreted to be the product of matter, there is no spirit, soul, essence, whatever you want to call it. I'm don't believe the hype of the church but it seems to me that were it not for religion the world would be even more barbaric than it currently is.

Marxism effectively reduces human beings to machines and tries to resolve all the world's problems just by resolving the problem of labor. The whole of history is nothing but a struggle between the bourgeois and the proletariat, this is the sole motor of all historical changes. Rather reductionist view of the human being, is it not?

Because Marxism purports to be absolute truth, dissenters must be destroyed (at least, in practise it has been that way). Then there's the whole thing about "the dictatorship of the proletariat" (some people think it doesn't mean a perpetual dictatorship, but that's how it's always been in practise).

There are surely a whole load more ways to criticize the foundations of Marxism but I can't remember so much at present.

Illuminat3d0ne wrote:Both are simply ways of controlling a population, the only truly free political system would be arachy


Yes, if we can each learn to govern ourselves. The majority of anarchists who I've met seem to be in it for the free love and the easy life (not much work except taking a beating from the cops now and again).

Alfredo
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Postby Alfredo » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:46 pm

Illuminat3d0ne wrote:
Masato wrote:Thank you shankara, this is the kind of stuff I was looking for. Super interesting...

Did you ever hear the theory that current Canadian PM is Castro's son?

I believe that is true, honestly

Edit: there is a story similar about the leader of Germany, fuck why cant I remember her name right now

Angela merkel. Hitler's daughter.


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